Is Traction Control So Bad?

"Justin Hughes" (justinhughes54)
02/24/2015 at 21:35 • Filed to: how to drive

Of course you want to turn all the electronic nannies driver aids off to !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . We Jalops don't need no stinking traction control, right? Many of our cars are so old they don't even have it. And because other people can't even !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , they should never turn traction control off.

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But we think nothing of using launch control in a car that's equipped with it. That's just a special traction control program that optimizes acceleration at the expense of melted tires. And the new Mustang is programmed with a line lock setting, for the specific purpose of melting warming up tires. We think nothing of using those functions. Is traction control really the utter killjoy so many enthusiasts make it out to be?

Having driven through the Boston area's second snowiest winter on record (and counting), and since !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! is blessed with multiple levels of traction and stability control that are completely at the control of the driver, I've had a chance to experiment a bit and figure out what works for me. And I've found that there are times that I absolutely want the electronic traction aids on. Does that make me a wuss? I don't think so. I think it's a matter of selecting the appropriate setting based on the conditions you're driving in. It's just like selecting the right gear.

Here's what I've discovered about what traction control mode works best in what conditions. Your mileage may vary depending on what modes, if any, are available in your particular vehicle. If you have an older car without any of these systems, you can stop reading right now and go look at some cat pictures instead.

All Systems Go

When you start the car, traction and stability control are fully activated by default. For everyday street driving, this is fine, and you don't need to change a thing. Hooning on public roads is bad, m'kay?

I also find full traction control handy in changing or uncertain conditions. More than once I've noticed the traction light on the dashboard flash at me unexpectedly when the car caught itself about to slide on ice that I couldn't even see. Conditions like this are where traction control really shines, and does exactly what it's supposed to do.

But running my BRZ's stock Prius tires last year, I noticed traction control kicking in at times I didn't expect it to - in the rain, for example, or even on dry pavement occasionally. On snow tires, dry and wet pavement grip isn't that much different from the stock Prius tires, which is pretty sad. If I'm trying to squeeze into a small break in dense traffic and get the smallest amount of wheelspin, the brakes come on, the power cuts out, and I find myself stopped in the middle of the busy intersection I was trying to get across quickly. I'm hoping some grippy summer tires will help with this problem.

Traction Control Off

In the BRZ, pressing the traction control button briefly will turn off traction control while leaving stability control fully enabled. If you're stuck in the snow, this mode is useful for allowing a limited amount of wheelspin to help you get moving. Especially with snow tires, the spinning wheels can dig into the snow and find some grip - maybe even some bare pavement if you're lucky. This is much better than the brakes stopping the wheelspin and preventing you from going anywhere.

However, there are some limitations. For one thing, traction control will automatically turn back on above 30mph or so - or, at least, an indicated 30mph. This means that if your wheelspin exceeds an indicated 30mph, it'll turn back on again and you'll just bog right down. So you won't be able to spin the wheels up to an indicated 110mph in your driveway like I once did in a Neon. Additionally, stability control is still active, so if you start getting a little bit sideways, it'll catch your drift and automatically turn traction control back on, bringing you to a quick stop.

Sport Mode

The BRZ also has a button marked "VSC Sport." This is a more permissive mode of stability control that doesn't turn it all the way off. It allows the car to move around a little bit, but it will still kick in and save your butt if you're getting in over your head. This is a good mode for less experienced drivers. It'll let the car rotate enough to act naturally, teach skills, and be fun, but you likely won't find yourself in a snowbank or wall if you don't happen to catch the slide yourself. It's good for consistently snowy conditions, as well as the first session or two of a track day until you get a good feel for the car yourself.

The downside with this mode is you don't always know when it's going to cut in. In normal mode, you know it's going to activate immediately. When it's off, you know it won't activate at all. But this middle ground can be a bit of a grey area, and tricky to drive around. I've found myself running in VSC Sport, have the car get a little sideways, dial in the appropriate correction, and then have the car also dial in the appropriate correction, which sends us sliding in the opposite direction to do the dance again until we finally work it out. If you already have the skills, this mode may not help you much.

It's also possible to turn off traction control, as described above, in addition to VSC Sport mode. It'll behave the same way, turning off over 30mph, but VSC Sport will allow a little sideways action before it kicks in, which may be handy in certain snowy extraction circumstances.

Traction And Stability Control Off

This is what we enthusiasts like to see - no traction control, no stability control. Hold down the traction control button for five seconds (the procedure varies from car to car), and you're on your own. This is how you make those nice little circles in snowy parking lots like in the top picture. This is the mode you want for autocross, or the track once you're confident in the car and your skills. And if you have the skills, this is the mode I like in consistently snowy conditions. I'm talking about a good packed layer of snow all over the road - a known quantity that you can predict. You won't need to press buttons to get a little wheelspin to accelerate away from a stop sign - you're already there. And if you want to kick the tail out a little bit around a corner, a little goose of the gas will do that quite nicely.

The disadvantage, of course, is that your safety net is gone. The car isn't going to save you from yourself if you screw up and hit a snowbank, or a guardrail. So keep that in mind before hitting the hoon button, and drive within your limits and the car's.

Conclusion

Most cars don't have all of these fancy modes. Many cars don't allow you to fully disable traction control. Some may have a "snow mode," which will allow a little wheelspin but not much. Some cars have traction control but no stability control. So what's best for you and your winter beater? I suggest finding an empty, snow covered parking lot, and experimenting a bit. Try all the modes available to you, and learn how the car handles in each mode. That way, when you run into situations on the street, you can put your car into the proper traction mode for those particular circumstances.

Now all I need is a Pursuit mode for some serious hooning.

DISCUSSION (52)

Scary__goongala! > Justin Hughes
02/24/2015 at 21:41

The most experience I have with Traction Control is with my dad's 06' Chevy Slobalt. When I drove it for a short while I hated it. It completely prevented me from pulling away from a stop on the slightest of inclines when the roads were wet. Granted the tires he put on it sucked, but the car would simply not let the tires slip long enough to gain traction. God I hate that car.

Justin Hughes > Scary__goongala!
02/24/2015 at 21:45

And that's exactly when you want to turn it off, or put it into snow mode or whatever. If you can. Some cars won't let you, and that's bad.

Ramblin Rover - The Vivisector of Solihull > Justin Hughes
02/24/2015 at 21:45

Best: no nannies, and Torsen or Posi. No getting stuck, and if you really want to smoke, you burn two tires at once.

Justin Hughes > Ramblin Rover - The Vivisector of Solihull
02/24/2015 at 21:46

I'm fortunate enough to have a Torsen and the ability to fully disable the nannies. And yes, it's a whole lot of fun!

Ramblin Rover - The Vivisector of Solihull > Justin Hughes
02/24/2015 at 21:51

My project must of necessity have a brake proportioning valve, which I means I can turn off the rear brakes for line lock any time I want, and the diff is limited slip. Huehuehuehuehue...

Scary__goongala! > Justin Hughes
02/24/2015 at 21:53

yeah...Slobalts don't let you do that haha. All the more reason to hate them.

Shankems > Justin Hughes
02/24/2015 at 21:59

One button that 100% disables traction and stability control in a single press in my G8. No modes. The traction and stability control work great in all weather and allow a small amount of slip angle even when enabled.

The neat part is that I can keep my foot planted 100% to the floor when the traction control starts working on a snowy hill and the car won't flip out. It just feeds power back in with no drama. Until you hit a high grip spot, then that throws it off a bit, but it brings itself back down instantly.

I am thankful for it every day, because 300lb-ft at 2500RPM causes a lot of trouble in low grip scenarios. Even with my new Dunlop Winter Maxxs on.

Justin Hughes > Shankems
02/24/2015 at 22:00

Your G8 is doing it right.

Purgso > Justin Hughes
02/24/2015 at 22:15

I have a Ford Escape and I absolutely hate the stability control. The traction control is disabled easily but the stability is permanent. Not even a fuse. It's AWD too. Anyway, the stability control can be summed up as: "Is the car starting to slide? Then cut throttle. Wait until the car stops sliding and then wait another second or two. Start acknowledging the existence of the gas pedal again." That's it. Any wheel starts sliding and the gas pedal is disabled entirely. If I make a turn in winter and bump a snowbank with my tire I have to sit there until the gas pedal starts working again. Going from a V8 Explorer to this made winters so much more dull.

That's my rant for the day.

GTRZILLAR32-Now saving for Godzilla and a condo > Justin Hughes
02/24/2015 at 22:17

In summer I can drive pretty comfortably w/ the TC off, which is nice because under hard acceleration in 2nd and 3rd gear the TC cuts in but there isn't any noticeable wheelspin in those gears. BUT, if its cold out its best to keep TC on because even pulling out of my street on to the main road the rear end will break loose (was a nasty surprise at 7am).

Justin Hughes > GTRZILLAR32-Now saving for Godzilla and a condo
02/24/2015 at 22:19

I'm thinking with some Michelin Pilot Super Sports, it should be pretty difficult for me to break traction with no power mods. Then it won't matter what mode I run!

GTRZILLAR32-Now saving for Godzilla and a condo > Justin Hughes
02/24/2015 at 22:38

That may be too much tire (if there is such a thing) for day to day driving most guys who DD their M3's in the NE use the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S3's.

JasonStern911 > Justin Hughes
02/24/2015 at 23:08

I wish I had PSM on my 996. the limits are high enough that should I lose traction, I'm probably well past my comfort zone in a rear-engine, rear-wheel drive car to recover.

gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee > Justin Hughes
02/24/2015 at 23:29

my only experience with traction control is on the cars at work. (I'm a delivery driver for a chain parts store). Both my personal vehicles were designed before traction control was a thing, one by AMC and the other by Avto-Vazquez; respectively a Jeep and a Lada.

But, at work, well, my first experience was with a Chevy HHR, circa 2010. The traction control is NOT GOOD. The intervention is almost immediate, cutting all engine to prevent any wheelspin. The roads in my city are snow-packed from November to April, so this is not helpful at all. Fortunately, there's a second traction control mode: off. It took me five minutes before I started hunting for the button. Off allows the car to do that thing where it, you know, moves.

Our other vehicles aren't so bad. A pair of 2012 Focii, and a 2012 Micra. The Fords don't react as immediately, and allow a small punt of spin, although there's been a couple moments where I've pulled out into a smallish gap, and they cut power, causing me to loose all forward momentum - after having pulled out in front of someone. I have yet to have that happen in the Micra, but I don't get to drive it as much. (This is a sad thing, because it's such a fun little car).

We also have a couple other cars, a 2008ish Chevy half-ton with the 6.0, and a Toyota Echo. I think the truck has traction control, but with that much torque at the rear of a front-heavy chassis, it doesn't take much pressure on the gas pedal before it gets real sideways, real fast. The Echo is what the teenagers drive in the evenings, it's a piece of crap, and I've only ever driven it across the parking lot.

My personal wheels? They can both put power to both axles, and I've never had a problem getting them moving... unless they were stuck due to the whole not-driving-on-a-road thing. But even growing up driving my parents vehicles, none of which had any driver aids, both rear and front driven, I never found it a problem without legitimately needing a tow truck (and then getting out anyhow because I couldn't have paid for it and heaven forbid my parents found out I put their brand new car in a ditch AGAIN). But that said, I leave the nannies On in all the work vehicles (except the HHR, because, you know, moving) because I really shouldn't be hooning them anyhow (although I do, but gently and within the constraints of the nannies) and they aren't all that intrusive, even with my somewhat aggressive driving style.

gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee > Purgso
02/24/2015 at 23:50

I used to work in a national park, and carpooled with a lady driving her mother-in-law's AWD Escape. Our commute involved about 20 miles of twisty gravel road (that was built following an elk migration trail during WW11 by POW's). Even as a passenger, I hated the stability control. If there was seemingly any difference in wheel speed, it would slam on the brakes. There were many spilled drinks. One time, we had a flat tire, and had to put on the compact spare... The best we could do after that was 40mph, and we couldn't take any corner at more than 15 without it slamming the brakes on us. Like you said, no way to shut it off. My coworker even took it to a somewhat shady dealer, and they couldn't (or wouldn't) do anything for her. Between that and never being able to get comfortable in ANY of the seats, (I'm 6'2, and all newer vehicles I've been in except the 2015 Micra seem to push my head and shoulders too far forward, overly curving my back) I'll never be able to recommend one, although it's definitely a car put together very nicely with quality materials.

Tony Lipikorn > Justin Hughes
02/24/2015 at 23:58

There's a third mode on the brz/frs twins! It's a sequence the forum folks have nicknamed the Pedal Dance and it's even less intrusive than the 5 second Trac Off press. First, the car must be at operating temperature and the following must be done within 30 seconds of starting the car. Pull the e brake 3 times and hold on the third, press the brake pedal 3 times and hold on the third, pull the e brake 3 times and again hold on the third, press the brake pedal 2 more times. If done correctly, two yellow lights in the cluster light up. You've now disabled all traction aids. This setting is obviously best suited for the track. Have fun!

Here's the thread for reference: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthr…

daender > Justin Hughes
02/25/2015 at 00:03

Traction control is great for street use such as keeping my dad's 08 Mustang GT on the road during normal driving. I dislike it for tracking/racing purposes if it's brake-operated TC (which is the most common type of TC) because of the additional wear it places on the braking system. I'm 100% bueno with engine-controlled TCs which retards engine revolutions instead of using the brakes to maintain traction.

Ex: Red Bull's system and the ZR1's launch control.

A majority of the track day instructors in my area recommend turning it off. One of my friends actually cracked his C5 Z06's rotors because he accidentally left TC on all day during an event.

Tony Lipikorn > Tony Lipikorn
02/25/2015 at 00:04

^fourth mode

gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee > gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee
02/25/2015 at 00:11

Just a small correction since I can no longer edit, the Micra's a 2015 model. Not sure whether to blame Kinja, my iPhone, or rye whiskey.

Justin Hughes > Tony Lipikorn
02/25/2015 at 10:18

Yes, I'm familiar with the pedal dance. I didn't mention it since it's not something you can easily turn on and off while you drive, which was the point I'm making. But you're absolutely right about it, and I'm glad you mentioned it in the comments. Thanks!

I wonder how many other cars have "secret" modes like this, involving a left, right, up, down, square, circle, R1, R2, start sequence. It's literally a cheat mode for your car.

Storz > Justin Hughes
02/25/2015 at 10:30

Mine saved my ass yesterday in the snow we got here in Raleigh. 330i + summer tires = nightmare in the snow

Justin Hughes > daender
02/25/2015 at 10:32

If you're going out to play on a track, turn it off - that's what you're there for. Or maybe leave it in sport mode your first session to get a feel for the car with a safety net. Amazing about the cracked rotors though!

Justin Hughes > Storz
02/25/2015 at 10:35

Summer tires = nightmare in the snow in any car! But you don't usually get much/any there, so you get a pass on not having them.

RazoE > Justin Hughes
02/25/2015 at 10:40

I always drive with the traction control off on my IS 300 because of the way it works. There's a secondary throttle body in the intake manifold that'll shut if the car detects tire spin. Combined with a clutch damper from the factory, you can end up burning your clutch and going nowhere when you need power the most (such as a left turn with oncoming traffic barreling at you). Plus my previous car was turbo RWD manual without any aids at all (even ABS), so I'm used to it.

haktical > Scary__goongala!
02/25/2015 at 10:46

I had a Cavalier that was like that. It was an auto, but I found if I put it in 1 or 2 it would disable TC (or, at least, the dash made it look like TC was disabled), but I had no button for it. No idea how this would apply if it had been a stick, but the same trick might work on the Cobalt.

Either way, I ended up pulling the fuse for TC after it almost got me killed a few times (I was at college, and to get out of my parking lot was a left across traffic uphill, and multiple times it fully cut power, leaving me stranded in the middle of the road with cars barreling down the hill). The fuse trick also disabled ABS, which was kinda bad (those brakes had awful feel), but not a huge deal.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Purgso
02/25/2015 at 10:48

The Traction Control button in my Milan is like that

If it's not selected to "Off" I have the same situation as you have, it's fine normally but if I want any fun of any kind that button needs to be pushed. I'm FWD though so I don't have the stability or grip of AWD.

haktical > Justin Hughes
02/25/2015 at 10:54

Not a car, but I love the TC on my motorcycle (2013 Kawi ZX-6R). It has 3 levels (plus completely disabled, but there is almost no reason to do so, especially on the street). 2 or 3 are great for rain or cold days (3 is really invasive, you feel it kick in quite often), 2 for daily driving (allows you to be a little heavier on throttle but very little actual sliding), 1 for sporty driving (allows for quite a bit of sliding). Obviously, 1 or off for track riding. The TC works by adjusting fueling and timing, nothing brake based, and has never once upset my balance, even mid-corner.

It's very confidence inspiring, and when the margin of error on a bike is so slim you learn to appreciate the benefits.

Justin Hughes > haktical
02/25/2015 at 11:16

As a rider myself I completely understand the appeal! And here I thought a fuel injected Harley was high tech...

Tony Lipikorn > Justin Hughes
02/25/2015 at 11:48

Great article btw! I really haven't experimented to the extent you have with the different modes in my brz. I live in SoCal, so I'm not familiar with this "snow" you speak of and low traction events are usually at the request of the throttle. I routinely put it in sport as soon as I start it up and have been using the 5 second press for track days. While I like that sport mode lets you wag the tail a little, I agree that it's a bit unpredictable.

It's pretty cool that there's a special sequence to turn aids off that's impossible to accidentally engage. I don't know of any other cars with this function off the top of my head. Sounds like a good question to pose to all the Jalops out there. Get on it Justin! I look forward to another enjoyable read.

Justin Hughes > Tony Lipikorn
02/25/2015 at 12:02

Thanks! And that's a good article idea. I should do something with that.

TahoeSTi > Justin Hughes
04/14/2015 at 13:46

Why can't you just learn to drive? You don't need the nannies you need to watch the road and the conditions on it, learn to read the pavement and hone your reactions. All these Nannies aren't helping people they just give over confidence. The only traction control you need in the snow is SNOW TIRES.

Justin Hughes > TahoeSTi
04/14/2015 at 14:20

You know that, and I know that. The problem is that America doesn't generally believe in teaching car control skills, so there is no incentive for non-enthusiasts to learn how to drive well. On top of that, more and more cars come with traction and stability control that can't be disabled without yanking out fuses. The only reason my BRZ has so many modes is because it's a sports car. My ex's 2006 Highlander has two modes, "normal" and "snow." There is no "off."

SpikeFiend > TahoeSTi
04/14/2015 at 15:23

There's a lot of things your car doesn't need... until you need them.

HammsonHammsonHamms > Ramblin Rover - The Vivisector of Solihull
04/14/2015 at 15:29

That's not how it works... You're looking for a line lock...

http://stoptech.com/technical-supp…

Iamopenlyjudgingyou > Justin Hughes
04/14/2015 at 15:40

Having lived in the north east my entire life, snow, ice, trips to ski lodges etc etc, is there an actual scenario where traction control is useful? Is learning throttle management so difficult for some people that traction control is actually useful for them?

So far in the various cars I've driven with it equipped it has proven to be a useless feature and in some case causing some dangerous crap nanny system (nothing like flooring the car only to have traction control step in to dial back wheelspin and power.)

Having the light come on while driving through slippery stuff doesn't mean that the system is actually useful. "Ohh light flashed...I'm sure glad I have a TCS on mah car!!!"

-Tom- > Justin Hughes
04/14/2015 at 15:56

I'm late to this article party but in my 2003 IS300 traction control is flat out dangerous. It kicks in so easily and with such an iron fist that if you're trying to merge with any kind of vigor beyond what Mrs Daisy would approve of, it kicks in and will not relent for one-one-thousand-two-one-thousand-(slowly start rolling power back on, slowly)-three-one-thousand-four and youre finally, maybe, back up to full throttle. It kicks in at the slightest whim when cornering as well because of the limited slip diff in the rear, obviously you give it any kind of torque and it wants to lock which the ABS system sees the front two at different speeds, the rear two should be at different speeds as well, right? Yeah when the rears arent at as radically different speeds as the front two it freaks out and locks you down, hard.

Justin Hughes > Iamopenlyjudgingyou
04/14/2015 at 15:58

It can react faster than a human, and better than an untrained human. There's a place for it. But there's even more of a place for having a clue how to drive, I agree.

At this point, I have my summer tires on the car, and finally - FINALLY - I don't have to shut off traction control to punch it into a small break in traffic. On the snow tires or Prius tires, the traction "aids" would bring the car to a stop in the middle of the intersection, just like you said.

Justin Hughes > -Tom-
04/14/2015 at 16:00

What are you running for tires? I sometimes had similar behavior in my BRZ on OEM and snow tires, but not do much on my new summer tires.

buckfiddious > Justin Hughes
04/14/2015 at 16:05

My boring FWD Jetta Sportwagon handles better in the snow than my exciting little AWD Subaru Impreza ever did.

Sure, I could powerslide around icy corners in the Impreza. Sure, it was more fun to drive. Or at least it was more fun right up until it became terrifying because I'm not a pro rally driver and the icy road has inconsistent traction and is that a tree?

Traction control in the snow is great. Wisconsin winters are far better with traction control than AWD. And, I get better gas mileage. Much better gas mileage.

There's a difference between exciting handling and good handling. A high speed bullet train handles corners at 300 miles an hour in the most boring way possible. It's not exciting but it is good. A Reliant Robin handles corners at 30 miles an hour in the most exciting way possible- by rolling over. Very exciting, not good at all.

Traction control is awesome. Being able to occasionally disable traction control in deep snow is fantastic but once things even out and you're back on a plowed street, I'll take traction control over AWD any day.

The Powershift in Steve's '12 Ford Focus killed it's TCM (under warranty!) > Purgso
04/14/2015 at 16:15

That's unfortunate. My Focus is much more permissive than that before it throws out the anchor and tries to straighten up. It allows me to get a bit of rotation going, so by the time the car starts to really slide sideways, I'm already pointed in the right direction and trying to accelerate forward. My fiance's 2012 Edge is similarly permissive - I had it drifting like a 240SX when we pulled out of a parking lot onto a snowy road in Hershey, PA this past February. Who knew that sliding a 4200lb brick at 25mph could be so fun?

magic > Justin Hughes
04/14/2015 at 17:26

I personally drive an 06 jetta and the traction control barely does anything? The light just keeps flashing while the wheels spin and only cuts fuel after a few seconds

I have also driven a 2014 model and the traction control kicks in a lot fastern pace

Once i was going around a corner in the snow and the car went into a slow, controlled drift. I kept driving since this wouldn't be a concern in my car, however in the 2014 the fuel got cut off, the front wheels caught grip and it sent the back end sliding out intothe other side of the street. Thankfully i was able to save it, no one else was around and i was only going about 30 otherwise tractin control could have killed me

Justin Hughes > magic
04/14/2015 at 17:58

I remember watching a Saturn SC2 at an ice race. He left traction control on, but he also stayed on the gas, and the wheels just spun and spun regardless.

Shoop > TahoeSTi
04/14/2015 at 18:59

Because sometimes you fuck up.

-Tom- > Justin Hughes
04/14/2015 at 20:23

I've run a myriad of tires. The OEM tires were Bridgestone Potenza RE92's, which were the worst...all the way to stuff as sticky as the Falken Azenis RT615 to the current Bridgestone Potenza RE760 Sports (due to being a student I cant afford to run UTQG 200 tires)

Justin Hughes > -Tom-
04/14/2015 at 20:32

Ugh - I remember the Subaru crowd complaining about the RE92s when they were the OEM tire on the WRX. I can't say the BRZ's Michelin Primacy HP is much better! But Pilot Super Sports have transformed the car. I rarely kick in traction control now.

-Tom- > Justin Hughes
04/15/2015 at 07:47

Well consider that a BRZs traction control is a decade newer than it is in my car plus Subaru may have done their own thing on programming that. It just seems this car was programmed with traction control to be way too strict and unforgiving. I've driven cars where its seemless, even if youre trying to get it to kick in, it does but you still dont really notice its there, those ones are alright...the one in my car is dangerous.

Justin Hughes > -Tom-
04/15/2015 at 14:47

It's all in the programming, whether it's good or bad.

TahoeSTi > Shoop
04/15/2015 at 17:03

and thinking the electronic nannies will save you is the issue.

-Tom- > Justin Hughes
04/15/2015 at 18:21

Right and on most cars...its terrible.

SasquatchMelee > Justin Hughes
04/21/2015 at 12:13

I believe GM’s TC early on just pulled timing, no brakes. I have a 2000 Grand Prix GTP, with the supercharger and FWD, the torque can overwhelm the tires easily but I’ve never heard the ABS pump kick on when the low trac light comes on. Fortunately it doesn't completely kill the engine power like it seems most modern cars do.

Justin Hughes > SasquatchMelee
04/21/2015 at 12:15

That makes perfect sense based on the behavior I saw.

SasquatchMelee > Justin Hughes
04/21/2015 at 12:16

Driver should always have the option to disable it, except maybe in things like 15 passenger vans.
My CTS-V does it right. One click, TC off. Two clicks, sport mode. Hold, everything completely off. Button is right on the steering wheel haha. But the system even fully on is only minorly intrusive. I’ve only gotten mad it how much it cut power once or twice. Usually it kicks in very briefly to straighten the car and then hands everything back to the driver very quickly.